Comments on: Every Day the Same Dude https://nickm.com/post/2010/01/every-day-the-same-dude/ Nick Montfort Mon, 11 Jan 2016 07:23:48 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.8.2 By: Post Position » Choosing Chun-Li in the Rat Race https://nickm.com/post/2010/01/every-day-the-same-dude/comment-page-1/#comment-3411 Sat, 26 Jun 2010 18:38:25 +0000 http://nickm.com/post/?p=645#comment-3411 […] sont nulles aux jeux vidéo.” It makes me wonder about several things, and puts me in mind of a previous conversation about gender, gaming, and work, but for now, I’ll just mention one thing I’ve been pondering: Could a generally similar […]

]]>
By: Designing Against the Default Human | The Border House https://nickm.com/post/2010/01/every-day-the-same-dude/comment-page-1/#comment-1531 Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:01:04 +0000 http://nickm.com/post/?p=645#comment-1531 […] by Alex in General Gaming, Virtual Worlds on January 25, 2010 A friend linked this post about the indie flash game Every Day the Same Dream, a conversation between Nick Montfort and Mary […]

]]>
By: Jesper Juul https://nickm.com/post/2010/01/every-day-the-same-dude/comment-page-1/#comment-1245 Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:26:05 +0000 http://nickm.com/post/?p=645#comment-1245 Mary, can I ask you a question that I have been wondering about from our discussions about what video games mean.

Do you have an opinion on whether video games should:

1) Represent the world as it is.
2) Represent the world as it should be.
3) Present dystopian versions of the world.
4) Call out undesirable aspect of the world as it is.
5) Satire existing prejudices and representations.

?
-Jesper

]]>
By: Paolo https://nickm.com/post/2010/01/every-day-the-same-dude/comment-page-1/#comment-1205 Wed, 06 Jan 2010 22:41:37 +0000 http://nickm.com/post/?p=645#comment-1205 That’s a good point, I forgot about the detail of the spouse in front of the guy.

]]>
By: Ian Bogost https://nickm.com/post/2010/01/every-day-the-same-dude/comment-page-1/#comment-1202 Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:27:10 +0000 http://nickm.com/post/?p=645#comment-1202 Paolo and Mary, it’s also possible to read the “procedurally sexist” dynamic of Passage as a completely un-gendered representation of commitment. The player does not control a man dragging a spouse by the hair, but a couple who can access some things and not access others in their coupled state. I think Jason’s decision to place the spouse in front of the initial character very much supports this reading.

As for EDTSD, the whole *point* of the game is to depict a black and white world of absurd, unfair, arbitrary, and artificial social constraints. Isn’t it fair to say that AMONG THESE is precisely the gender role that Mary wants to critique? Everyone is miserable in this game. And on that topic, what of the ACTUAL role of the woman in the game, which ought to invite some sort of an interpretation, beyond what it is not?

]]>
By: mary https://nickm.com/post/2010/01/every-day-the-same-dude/comment-page-1/#comment-1194 Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:22:21 +0000 http://nickm.com/post/?p=645#comment-1194 Good discussion!

Procedural bias is something I’ve been engaged with for some time…Thanks for bringing it up in this discussion Paolo. It stretches beyond representation, and this makes it tricky to define (yet one of the central ideas behind the critical play approach and the values at play project).

I do think though that the “stock character that everybody (in the West) associate to a bundle of values” *can* be replaced without a wishy washy sense of neutrality… existentialist critique can happen in other ways…

Most folks have seen this research in the values arena, but thinking about stock or stereotypical representations (and procedures) is a vast, important, and necessary area of reflection.

After the above conversation, I think it might be nice to take a look at the psychology research about stereotypes… for example, research has shown that stereotypes actually reinforce the status quo, http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/research/ob_stereotypes.shtml. ‘Stereotype threat’ is a phenomenon that occurs when someone grouped into a particular negative stereotype is demonstrably, negatively affected in performance, esteem, and social status, even at unconscious levels. http://www.reducingstereotypethreat.org/

Getting at *what our stereotypes are* is another related topic. There is an experimental method called the Implicit Association Test (IAT) within social psychology designed to measure the strength of automatic associations between images, concepts, and words. In short, it unpacks unconscious responses by participant (players, in fact) of this game like test.

Wouldn’t it be interesting to make a game framed on this set of literature?

]]>
By: Nick Montfort https://nickm.com/post/2010/01/every-day-the-same-dude/comment-page-1/#comment-1185 Tue, 05 Jan 2010 04:12:15 +0000 http://nickm.com/post/?p=645#comment-1185 Paolo, thanks for your comments. Sometimes it is empowering to be able to come to a work on its own terms, without concern for authorial intention, which can hinder one’s ability to interpret independently. It seems to me to be much better, in this case, to have you as part of the discussion.

Your comments about Passage are particularly interesting – it would be quite a different game if your partner got to lead you around half the time, or if you got to “play” as the woman and end up dragged around by the guy.

In my own Book and Volume, I tried to toy with the matter of the PC’s gender a bit. The game “detects” the PC’s gender based on the first name that the player enters – maybe getting it wrong. There are then a few very subtle differences in descriptive text which probably no one has noticed. But for the most part the game follows the tradition of the PC being “genderless,” at least as far as explicit references to gender are concerned. I’m not sure it improves on that or the “choose-your-own-(irrelevant)-gender” model.

]]>
By: Paolo https://nickm.com/post/2010/01/every-day-the-same-dude/comment-page-1/#comment-1182 Tue, 05 Jan 2010 01:30:44 +0000 http://nickm.com/post/?p=645#comment-1182 Hey there, interesting conversation.
The funny thing is that my girlfriend, who’s actually a cubicle worker made a similar remark about the gender choice.

I don’t think the author’s intentions are relevant for the reading of a text in general but I’ll write a couple of lines for the sake of discussion.

As I wrote in the oneliner description, EDTSD is a variation on a theme that has been tackled uncountable times in movies, literature or music (see two of my favorite songs: Disaffected by Piano Magic and Ghost of corporate future by Regina Spektor) but not in games as far as I know. The game is actually an adaptation of a short comic I made almost 10 years ago (links below) and it’s more like an exercise in “expressive” game design.

In this sense the guy with tie and case is nothing but a stock character that everybody (in the West) associate to a bundle of values: the productive imperative, the dead-end suburban dream, the Norm etc. The nuclear/patriarchal family is definitely a part of it and it’s indirectly object of the critique.
All the other white guys in the office are instances of the same prototypical character and the player can see it as projections of the main guy, that’s left intentionally open to interpretation.

About the gender choice. I could get it away simply saying that the time limit of 7 days for the Experimental Gameplay Project didn’t allow me to make interchangeable characters and, being XY myself, I tend to default to XY. That’s actually true but there’s another simple reason that deals with the conceptual economy of the game. A female white collar, substantial deviation from the trope, would have been interpreted as some kind of statement about gender, which was not the goal of the game. I’ve been addressing that kind of issue in past works as “queer power”, “orgasm simulator” and more laterally in “Ergon/Logos”, so that wouldn’t have been an unlikely interpretation. It’s simply about keeping the meaning distilled in compliance with the minimalist approach of the whole game.

In more general terms, male dominance in game representations is an old, well-known and extremely strategic issue, but it can’t just be addressed by including a gender/race choice everywhere. The Sims does that and it looks as rather cheap politically correct move because the choice doesn’t affect the gameplay in any way and reinforces the overarching narrative of the middle class dream accessible to everybody.
We have to look at how gender is procedurally implemented in the game. Passage didn’t bothered me for the missing gender option (as I don’t generally question movies or books for their character choices) but it did annoyed me because of how the girl is located in the gameplay: a passive, decorative burden that prevents you from getting the hidden “treasures”. Now I’m sure that Roher doesn’t see his partner this way and the design choice can be justified with the aforementioned economy in the the message, but it’s not a stretch to see that aspect of the game as “procedurally sexist”.

Links to the comic (an ordinary day):
http://www.molleindustria.org/everydaythesamedream/unagiornata1.jpg
http://www.molleindustria.org/everydaythesamedream/unagiornata2.gif

]]>